Streamlining Meteohub HW support

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netsigi
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Re: Streamlining Meteohub HW support

Post by netsigi » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:38 pm

First of all: Meteohub as Gateway Weather/Internet is a very good product, no question.
A discussion must be possible, and sometimes it helps all.
admin wrote: I am a bit surprised getting such harsh comments out of nothing. :(
This is simply not true: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5799#p5904 Moday 5.October 2009 i wrote the first complain about the same Kernel who is still the actual one for intel architecture. We speak both native german but it would sound harsh anyway :-)
admin wrote: Many Linux users feel some kind of an unwritten right to always get updates to the most recent distros/kernels, just because they are used to it.
They will not demand that from their years old print server, web cam etc, but in their view Meteohub has to follow these rules because they can
login via ssh and therefore don't see it as an appliance, which it is meant to be.
Comparing this to a printer or a webcam is not accurate. Even if it is an appliance it is a much more complex category. It interacts with Internet much more.
The argument is in an other way too easy. There are also Linux Users who build a business on Linux and it helps to make fast prototypes. You for example had no chance to build your product without the support of Linux. Nobody will buy a NAS or HomeEntertainmentCenter when he knows that it has a 5 years outdated basis.
There are many good examples for a good balance of OS/Application maintainment. For example FreeBSD based M0n0wall who helped as base for other Firewalls, NAS and PBX. Never the really newest OS, but from time to time (1-2Years) mostly to support newer Hardware.

admin wrote:I did spent time to fix a smtp problem on the ALIX platform during the last weeks, in order to keep ALIX users happy.
Ok exactly my point. There are no SMTP/TLS Problems on actual Linux distros. You were forced to do this because some ignorant providers will force more secure communication and authentication, true ? Normally this would be an apk upgrade and for You some minor tweaks for the WebGUI. And hey, You are lucky that ALIX is still powerful enough to handle one station.

Please do not take it personally, but i know from the RPI story you always think about what your customers do and say.
I hope sometime we meet and i can buy you a big beer or two :-)

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YJB
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Re: Streamlining Meteohub HW support

Post by YJB » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:57 am

Ok,

I feel urged to add my opinion to this thread as well as I feel that Boris is not treated right (given the less than USD 100 investment that is doing its job for more than 5 years), so I'll jump on my soapbox.

The way I see this:
1) We've all bought (well, actually we got a license) the right to use an appliance that collects and distributes weather related information
2) The license purchase is a one time transaction. i.e we are not paying any yearly maintenance fee that gives us some rights. The only "right"that we have is that the product is doing what it is supposed to do at the time of purchase. The developer has decided to let us judge " is doing what it is supposed to do" before purchasing the product, as there is a evaluation period in which the potential "buyer" can try all functionality. Once the end user gets a license he/she more or less confirms that the product " is doing what it is supposed to do"
3) Meteohub is an appliance, the developer maintains both the platform (OS), as well as the application. That means that it will be up to the developer to work around a bug in the OS that limits the functionality of the application, or that the developer chooses to upgrade the OS in order to get such a problem fixed. I guess the decision will be based on the amount of effort required for each option.

So, all in all, as long as MH is doing what it is supposed to do, I guess it doesn't really matter what OS MH is running. We've bought a license to use the application, and not a license for an application that runs a particular OS.
The fact that some users want to extend the functionality beyond what was promised or available at the time of purchase, is not really relevant. The developer might decide to make the product more attractive for potential buyers and decides to add functionality (new weather stations, new reports, new export methods or whatever), but that will be a decision to be made by the developer.

So I guess the questions is: what is broken in MH that makes you (not pointing to a particular user) feel that the OS needs an update? Remember that I'm referring to "broken" not to "well it would be nice if we can add this and this functionality".

And finally, just to be clear, I have no relationship with smartbedded UG, not with Boris on a personal level. Boris has not asked me to write this, this effort is purely based on doing, in my perspective, the right thing. I'm a happy user, I've asked in the past also for additional features, and sometimes you will get something new (because it makes sense) and sometimes not (because it doesn't make sense from a functionality point of view or it doesn't make sense from an effort point of view).
Last edited by YJB on Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peteroi
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Re: Streamlining Meteohub HW support

Post by peteroi » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:44 pm

Boris,
I think most users totally agree with your support of RPi.

Especially as the Foundation is continuously improving the Pi, and the Pi2 is now a product with so much computing power, it is now simply unbeatable in price-power-ratio.

The storage interface being a weak point, why not allowing the use of one of the "many" USB ports available for data storage, perhaps even allowing to copy the data partition to a second USB stick during operation, like in good old NSLU2 times ?
Programs could be on a small micro SD card, and data partition could be saved independant on USB - which is the most important thing for any user.

Btw: my old NSLU2 was running several years (!) with only ONE CF-card in a USB-CF-card interface, without a single problem (besides the interface laying around...)

I also totally agree with YJB.
All users please remember how often hardware changed during the last years, some pieces simply not being available any more ----- but Boris is still there supplying us with this wonderful piece of software, adapting it always to new hardware -- thanky you !

BR Peter

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Re: Streamlining Meteohub HW support

Post by netsigi » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:21 am

Hi YJB,
thanks for your opinion. I respect this, because this is the opinion of most the MH Users.

YJB wrote: 1) We've all bought (well, actually we got a license) the right to use an appliance that collects and distributes weather related information
Yes with one small but important point: Actually you can sell a license for an application like meteohub. You cannot sell a license for Linux and you cannot force lock out a user from this system. As far I see smartbedded does not violate the GPL. But there is also free interpretation of how to handle that.
YJB wrote: 2) The product " is doing what it is supposed to do"
If the product is the closed source meteohub application: yes
YJB wrote: 3) Meteohub is an appliance, the developer maintains both the platform (OS), as well as the application.
No, there is no OS maintenance. The most of halfway skilled Linux (and Windows, and OSX) Users agree, that an OS needs updates. It is called security. In most cases of the updates you have no idea what is the flaw, but you want not be the stupid one who did nothing against it. And we know in history many quite skilled manufacturers with not soo complex appliances had problems. Like the D-Link routers who had a simple but fatal NTP implementations who made DDOS on public NTP-Servers. http://slashdot.org/story/06/04/07/1302 ... tp-servers
Other appliances had some errors in handling of web-requests who allowed to access the system or in some cases other systems in internal network.
http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Je ... 15745.html
YJB wrote: So I guess the questions is: what is broken in MH that makes you (not pointing to a particular user) feel that the OS needs an update? Remember that I'm referring to "broken" not to "well it would be nice if we can add this and this functionality".
The point is: I can handle most of the stuff i need. What i cannot handle are all the bugs that where found since 2009. For example https://www.debian.org/security/2010/dsa-2094 And the other (guessed) > 100 known flaws of installed software. Like this http://www.scip.ch/?vuldb.8813 not verified but most likely.

As you see: It is not about Linux-Nerds who want to tweak something. They do it anyway and you cannot stop them. What i dislike is the bunch of unpatched systems around there and nobody cares, as long he has not strange things that happen in the local network.

I have 2 Licences. Purchased with 5 Years in between. I refuse to accept, that I payed for a lockout in a Open Source OS with no possibility to maintain a halfway secure system with exactly the same patchlevel it had in 2009. Does your windows virus scanner has definitions from october 2009?

My short term strategy is still waiting for a wonder and a reliable performant Meteohub system, but long term strategy is migrating to another system anyway. But also for me it is a time intensive task. Did i mention that i wrote my own plugin for my autonomous alpine weather station?

Have a nice weekend!

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Re: Streamlining Meteohub HW support

Post by admin » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:08 am

@netsigi: I don't appreciate that you hijack this thread which is about informing the
user-base about streamlining the many hw options which were supported over the last
7 years. As you are not willing to accept that Meteohub is meant as an appliance in your
LAN, further discussion is pointless and I close this thread for the sake of forum culture.

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